Define BROADCAST QUALITY

[K9EZ]

We are having a spirited discussion as to what is the definition of BROADCAST QUALITY. In the pas we could say that --- 3/4" is broadcast quality but VHS isnt. etc.

Now with all of the compression techniques, what truly is the level that is considered broadcast quality?

[RGORJANCE]

As far as that goes, all I got to say that "Broadcast Quality" on both radio and TV doesn't exist anymore. It used to be a combination of technical good quality, programming content good quality and operational good quality (execution).

I see today a general degradation of several of these parameters, and especially the execution. Sloppy cut outs of commercials before they are complete, excessive duplication of the same disgustingly stupid commercials BACK TO BACK in the same spot cluster, and for many programs, extremely poor writing and content. If I had operated spot clusters by repeatedly cutting out of spots before they were done, I woulda been FIRED!

So there, I vented.

Fossil

[K9EZ]

Anyone have suggestions about Quicktime, 4:2:2, 4:2:0, MPEg,,, ya da ya da

[Kelly]

I suppose in the DTV world, one can't reproduce 4:2:2 true video because in the encoding process the two extra chroma elements are stripped. Besides that, no average viewer can see the extra chroma bits with the naked eye anyway.

So to the original point; is 4:2:0 not considered broadcast quality even though it can be broadcast? Or is 4:2:2 merely considered post-production or dubbing quality (as originally intended).

[eadler]

VHS is broadcast quality. Go ahead, debate it.

[K9EZ]

I suppose in the DTV world, one can't reproduce 4:2:2 true video because in the encoding process the two extra chroma elements are stripped. Besides that, no average viewer can see the extra chroma bits with the naked eye anyway.

So to the original point; is 4:2:0 not considered broadcast quality even though it can be broadcast? Or is 4:2:2 merely considered post-production or dubbing quality (as originally intended).

OK I must admit I am a little weak in the compression techniques these days.

can you go into a litle more detail on how the 2:2 is stripped and why?

So why are a number of people saying that 4:2:0 is not broadcast quality? I understand that it starts to get into the keying and the like.

[Kelly]

In order to increase bandwidth headroom, in the ATSC world the two extra chroma bits :2, are stripped in the encoding process. Originally the extra two chroma elements were added when doing multi-generational dubs that may lose chroma in the transfer process.

The first 4 in the 4:2:2 term is for luminance or the black and white information, and this is where most of the picture detail is. Early tests in television human vision discovered a greater sensitivity to black and white information, while the color is filled in with less detailed areas of the human eye. This means you can reduce the color information and your eye cannot really tell. This is what the 2:2 part of 4:2:2 is for. It means the red and blue channels of the video signal are half the bandwidth of the luminance information. Green is not sent, as you can calculate green from red, blue and luminance information.

The color bandwidth of 4:2:2 is much higher than composite video. This all adds up to 4:2:2 being compatible with black and white or composite television, as the color and luminance information is sent separately, while only 2/3 of the data rate is required for about the same visual quality video.

[davek]

We are having a spirited discussion as to what is the definition of BROADCAST QUALITY. In the pas we could say that --- 3/4" is broadcast quality but VHS isnt. etc.

What about VHS dubbed onto 3/4" .. don't tell me someone hasn't tried that before and tried to argue it was broadcast quality!

[eadler]

What about VHS dubbed onto 3/4" .. don't tell me someone hasn't tried that before and tried to argue it was broadcast quality!

What about VHS recorded with 4 heads on a fresh tape, fully bulked, with flying erase heads, in SP with a source routed into the deck's enclosure in Y/C separation?

[NECRAT]

What about VHS dubbed onto 3/4" .. don't tell me someone hasn't tried that before and tried to argue it was broadcast quality!

What about VHS recorded with 4 heads on a fresh tape, fully bulked, with flying erase heads, in SP with a source routed into the deck's enclosure in Y/C separation?

High End public access, or small market TV. In my experience, the broadcast processing devices downstream just don't like VHS or SuperVHS. With that said, I know of some really small market TV stations that shot news on SVhs. I've seen some nice looking 3/4 video in the past (seriously, the quality rivaled that of Betacam), but that was rare and the majority of it looked like crap.

But compared to XDCam HD , analog video is all public access...

[rockmanac]

We shot and played back VHS for news in college, show playback was MiniDV.... Back in high school, the public access station used 3/4". So yeah... I've used it before, and I learned editing on 3/4" and a Sony RM-450 editor.

In Rockford, when I got there, we shot DVC Pro and played back off Beta....when I left we shot DVC Pro, played back off server. Master Control was mostly DVC Pro, but we had Beta as well...later a 360 Systems server.

Here in Madison it's a mix... Most photogs shoot on P2. Sports, Promotions and our OMBs, oops "Multimedia Journalists," shoot DVC Pro still. Playback is server. Master Control is almost 100% server based. I don't think anything is played off tape anymore...just some spots still come in that way. They have DVC Pro, Beta and D5 (I think) capabilities in there.

-Adam

[humpty]

'Broadcast Quality' went out the window when I found out that a well known TV station I used to work for were using SVHS for repeated playbacks.

I also heard of a cable company in Taiwan that went to the trouble of designing and
building a complex robot-arm and cart system to change tapes in SVHS players
for 24hr playback. Yes, that indeed was quality.

[boiseengineer]

Been keeping up the ol' Panasonic AG-1970 SVHS machine at home. It could be considered "broadcast quality" if you run it through a TBC (the one in it is junk).
Replaced the heads about 2 years ago and have a handful of spare parts. Have gone through my stash of Fuji "Pro" tapes and parts are getting scarce.

Need to get some of the VHS "archives" put to digital but have yet to find a decent way to do that at home on my budget.

[w9wi]

As far as that goes, all I got to say that "Broadcast Quality" on both radio and TV doesn't exist anymore. It used to be a combination of technical good quality, programming content good quality and operational good quality (execution).

"Broadcast Quality" depends on the program.

We honestly see very little program or commercial material presented to us for air with technical problems. We did have one spot airing where a guy & his daughter were presenting the goods -- the dad's wireless was badly distorted, his daughter sounded fine... it aired for the full schedule... I might add that the situation is MUCH better here than it was in Madison. (though I think time is more responsible for the improvement than distance. TV gear has become a lot more foolproof in 20 years!) There was one business up there whose spots were notorious both for poor quality and difficulty keeping time. They're still buying plenty of airtime and the material looks a lot better. (just wish they'd find a different presenter!)

It is however common to see commercial material that's too long. 30.5 seconds, sometimes more... I suspect that's the reason for most incidents of spots cutting out before complete. That time has to come from somewhere... too many excessively-long spots, and either you upcut the spots or you upcut the program... I think most stations program their automations to give a 30-second spot 30 seconds.

In newscasts, on the other hand, pretty much anything goes. Sometimes justifiably. (if you have amateur video of an un-color-balanced VHS with hum-filled audio showing a police chief taking a bribe, well, I think your audience will forgive the poor quality) Sometimes, it's just because someone's in too much of a hurry...

We've also had timing issues here. Our operators are under instructions not to override the automation -- the newscast goes off the air at 10:34:20, if News can't finish it by then it's their problem.

We haven't come anywhere near the newscast on channel 3 that ran **3 minutes** over. (admittedly, at the time we signed off at 2am so nothing had to be upcut -- but some spots had been bought to air before 11pm & we lost some of them because of the time slide...)

[rockmanac]

I might add that the situation is MUCH better here than it was in Madison. (though I think time is more responsible for the improvement than distance. TV gear has become a lot more foolproof in 20 years!)

It is however common to see commercial material that's too long. 30.5 seconds, sometimes more... I suspect that's the reason for most incidents of spots cutting out before complete. That time has to come from somewhere... too many excessively-long spots, and either you upcut the spots or you upcut the program... I think most stations program their automations to give a 30-second spot 30 seconds.

We've also had timing issues here. Our operators are under instructions not to override the automation -- the newscast goes off the air at 10:34:20, if News can't finish it by then it's their problem.

We haven't come anywhere near the newscast on channel 3 that ran **3 minutes** over.

- There's still quite a number of spots on air around here that are HORRENDOUS. (I won't name names, but there's one particular producer of spots who is really bad at 1. producing spots correctly and 2. producing dubs that are technically correct.)

- Most spots are "allowed" a few frames of slop time, usually. It's not uncommon for syndicated programs to have 2:32 breaks to account for this. And most times networks pause before rejoin...or at least they did. Back in Rockford, we were told to do, though, as you said. 30 meant 30. Of course, then people started asking questions why shows were timing out light and IDs were being added to compensate for the slop time that was allowed for in shows.

- Our automation is programmed to take us to Nightline at 22:35:00. (WNT at 17:30:00, GMA at 07:00:00, etc.) It's very, very rare to get approval to go longer than that, but I have had to do it on a couple of occasions...and those were breaking news situations, or weather, where we would have cut into programming anyway.

And yes, Channel 3 still overshoots slot on occasions, joining Letterman in progress. Especially since they have to get the editorial in after the end of the 10.

-Adam