60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

FM does it with frequency!

Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby ChuckG » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:31 pm

Deep Thought wrote: When I see them go on eBay for over 2 grand it makes me want to clean it up and list it but I never seem to get around to that. If you find any laying around, though, let me know. I'll rebuild and sell it and we can split the proceeds. :mrgreen:


It's nuts what some of that stuff goes for. I don't remember the sta-level's being all that exceptional. I thought the Audimax was a big improvement...but I don't buy O2-free nitrogen impregnated Monster Cable or low-impedance high-definition AC outlet strips either so what do I know. :mrgreen:
I have a Level Devil and a couple classic DBX 161 boxes I've been meaning to refurb. Along with a pair of Harman Kardon Melody II amps and a HH Scott Tuner. Just need to find the time and motivation.
If you really want a project, I know where there's a 1930's Gates American 250A collecting dust. Parts missing of course.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby NECRAT » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:04 pm

I replaced all my Square D circuit breakers with Square D Sharp breakers. They're more expensive, but you don't get that same "noise" you get from just a standard Square D breaker!!

LOL
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Re: 1930's Gates American 250A

Postby RGORJANCE » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:28 am

That could make a sweet 160 meter ham rig if you could get a STA LEVEL to go with it. Is that the one with the nice vertical chrome trim on the front?

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Re: 1930's Gates American 250A

Postby ChuckG » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:41 pm

RGORJANCE wrote:That could make a sweet 160 meter ham rig if you could get a STA LEVEL to go with it. Is that the one with the nice vertical chrome trim on the front?

Fossil


Chrome up both sides, mesh doors at the top, built in limiter.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Shane » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:45 pm

never thought a Sta-Level would become an Audiophile's treasure, did you.
I like the way they mimicked the old GATES logo with the RETRO red label.

I worked at one station in my entire career that had one and it was still in use (late 70's/early 80's - it would have already been considered outmoded). That station sure sounded pretty good, though. I never got to see the tx site and I'm sure there were some more magic boxes out there on the other side of Ma Bell. (Well, Pa Bell - it was in Pennsylvania. :wink: )

The in-studio mod monitor, which was probably "calibrated" to provide the desired results to impress management, would flash 100% negative with high frequency, and 125% positive, too. I asked the Chief once about the seemingly constant 100% light and he told me "it's legal to modulate 100%, it's not legal to modulate 101%," and then showed me how the adjustable flasher, whose pot was calibrated in 1% divisions, would cause that flasher to flash at 100% just like the other one, but if he set it at 101 - nothing.

I don't know how you do that without cheating although it never occured to me until this moment to accuse him of it. I've never been able to get 100% flashes that often without overmodulating all over the place. I generally shoot for an almost constant 92% and the peaks will get up to 100 without going over.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Dale H. Cook » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:42 am

Shane wrote:... he told me "it's legal to modulate 100%, it's not legal to modulate 101%,"

It is not possible to negative modulate an AM transmitter at 101%. 100% negative modulation is carrier cutoff.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Shane » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:28 am

I thought someone would point that out (not possible) while I was writing it, but that's what I recall he said (he may have said "not OK" rather than "not legal" but remember this is over 30 years ago conversation). Anyway, good to see someone was paying attention! Dale, you get a gold star!

Which begs the question, for me anyway, how did he get the -100% flasher to flash so much but the overmod flasher never did (assuming it wasn't just disabled)? That's why I'm thinking he had the -100% flasher calibrated to something less than 100, for show essentially. Since I had not had a chance to visit the transmitter site, I didn't know if he had another monitor out there or just set mod with a scope (probably).

However, there is the little detail that the variable flasher would indeed flash in unison with the -100% flasher when set to 100% and not flash at all at 101% - Apparently it could not flash at 101% if such is impossible, which it is. But it did still flash in unison at 100. It, too, could have been calibrated so that 100=90 but then it would still flash once in awhile when set higher and it didn't. I don't recall that the demonstration lasted very long but knowing me I would have been trying that 100/101 thing at other times when he wasn't in the studio and I don't recall ever getting a different result.

Also, I did not get to see the modulation on a scope at any time.

The audio didn't sound like it was being run through a brick wall clipper, although on AM one could probably get away with that more readily than on FM. I do know there was never a trace of overmodulation splatter.

I should just ask the fellow, but he may not remember after all these years. A lot of water under the bridge. Given the subject matter (my accusations of "cheating") I won't mention his name, but it came up in the discussion Fossil and I had the other week and he thought he remembered him. :) We are such a small town.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby ChuckG » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Modulation control that tight, assuming a tube-type AM transmitter? (30 years ago..) I've never seen it happen. Might come very close with a good processor and SS transmitter these days though.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Shane » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Kinda what I thought. This guy was full of little secrets, though. Part of me doesn't WANT to know how he did it!
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Deep Thought » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:27 am

ChuckG wrote:Modulation control that tight, assuming a tube-type AM transmitter? (30 years ago..) I've never seen it happen. Might come very close with a good processor and SS transmitter these days though.

You can do it on a well-tuned tube PWM transmitter and others which use exotic (for the 1970s) modulation schemes but not on one which is high-level plate modulated using a modulation transformer. I've pushed some MW5/10's and Continental 316Fs to the sweating point while smoke testing arrays but to get that kind of modulation performance you need almost a perfect load.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby ChuckG » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:58 am

You used "arrays" and "perfect load" in the same sentence. I'm gonna stick with "never seen it". :lol:
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Re:array and perfect load

Postby RGORJANCE » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:36 am

I heard about that once, or twice over the years. A consultant told me about a 2 twr array out in Iowa that was flat from DC to daylight. He had to run the numbers a couple times because he thought his equipment had malfunctioned.

Saw the sweep on WMAQ after new ATU and MW-50 went in. I thought it was weird because it was essentially flat out to at least 20khz each side, but that's a single stick.

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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Deep Thought » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:39 pm

ChuckG wrote:You used "arrays" and "perfect load" in the same sentence. I'm gonna stick with "never seen it". :lol:

WJIL, Jacksonville, IL. 4 tower inline, 1550. First time I went there I thought my bridge was broken...the impedance did not change off 54 ohms from about 1500 to 1600. Later when they bought a new SX-1 I had to re-do the common point to 50 ohms, and then even later we replaced the 1" copper hardlines with Heliax. Each of those mods still were flatter than the dummy load. :lol:

Had another earlier this year... http://www.broadcastengineering.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3329
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Shane » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:28 pm

I was impressed with WJIL's audio when I happened to come through there in 2000. Now I know one reason why.

About the other thread, PM vs. PWM. THAT may have been the difference. I can do 92% as noted with excursions towards 100% with a plate-mod job. Don't know what kind of TX it was back in the 1980 time frame in PA, but it could have been a PWM-type. I do seem to recall the modulation character was a lot different on the auxiliary, which was likely plate modulated.

We could get pretty tight on a 1981 317 I had the pleasure of working on in the 90's.

Had some flavor of then-late-model Gates transmitter on 1580 in NJ into which we ran audio from a Marti compressor and a Fisher organ reverb unit. There was also a Pultec Equalizer in the chain. I don't recall the mod readings but it sure did light up the dial. One night they came in and replaced all that with a Durrough unit. Listeners actually called us to complain about the audio. (Never had that happen before or since.) The Durrough was gone within a week and the former stuff restored. I'm sure it would have been better if properly adjusted - the main difference anyone would have truly noticed was the lack of reverb but the Marti jobs were awfully good for one-band mans.
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Re: 60s BOSS Radio Jock Levels vs Music

Postby Deep Thought » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:49 am

Yeah, George used that same compressor circuit in the Marti 25 watt solid state UHF RPU units (probably was in the 40 watt VHF's too). The plug-in module is the same as on those stand-alone compressors. I used to run live concert remotes through a pair of Marti RPUs on the "wide" channels, with that limiter engaged and stereo-linked through an RCA jack on the back of each. Sounded damn good.
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